Re pushing the articles: this goes back to your blog. Use your blog for the articles and informative stuff, build it up, let people comment on them, and basically merge the articles/blog section into one. Pop the link up into your header and that will keep them exposed.

The one thing I would suggest on the titles is to remove that extra piece at the end for all but the index page. You could keep your brand name, I suppose, but I've always been a big believer in making the title tag closely resemble the header of the page (which again, you don't have.)

Steven pretty well covered the rest of what I would have said.

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Re pushing the articles: this goes back to your blog. Use your blog for the articles and informative stuff, build it up, let people comment on them, and basically merge the articles/blog section into one. Pop the link up into your header and that will keep them exposed.

The one thing I would suggest on the titles is to remove that extra piece at the end for all but the index page. You could keep your brand name, I suppose, but I've always been a big believer in making the title tag closely resemble the header of the page (which again, you don't have.)

Steven pretty well covered the rest of what I would have said.

You mean the areas on the cateogory screens like
| Free Gift | Girlfriends Lingerie

And the product pages

| Buy Now at Girlfriends Lingerie

These suggestive terms where mentioned to me by a SEO firm that said it increased sales
, added urgency, separated the lines from the rest.

This ending is controlled by a module, that auto inserts this info
in after a products title, or category.

You believe that I should remove these xtra pieces adam and just go with straight titles
, meaning only the names and product mentions for titles?

As for the articles, i will work on making them more up front. One thing though.
I was always told to have articles on the main domain within the site , as WELL as in a blog.
You think i should just have them on the blog itself and not in the store?

Thanks again Adam for your comments

Originally Posted by Datagg

Thank you for your reply.... So your saying, that the ending Buy Now! at the end of each title is ok, as they are all different titles, except for the last part.

I'm not sure anybody answered this ... you've got a mountain of excellent advice in here, but I think the subject changed a little bit, probably to more important things. But I wanted to come back and give you a firm answer here.

Based solely on my experience, having a short phrase at the end of the title on a bunch of pages isn't considered spam. I showed you a handful of mine, with the name of the gallery at the end of each photo's title. I did this at VanGogh's advice ( and thanks for that! ) a few months ago. Right now I seem to have bout 85 % of my pages in the main index. I won't bore you with the benefits from this, but there doesn't seem to be any punishment. On the other hand, you should ask yourself why you want "Buy Now!" at the end of all your titles? I won't buy something just because my browser title says I should. Maybe someone will bookmark the page for something they like, and "Buy Now!" will help them find the right bookmark when they've got their girlfriend's approval? Apart from not wanting to do something that could be seen as spam, this is the kind of decision that you should make while pretending there are no search engines.

Now let's talk about something more important: what VanGogh is saying about the lack of content on your product pages. I've been fighting the same problem on my site. A friend of mine is an amazingly talented writer, so I asked her if she'd consider writing the text for a book I'm working on. She said that she'd be honored, but that my photos speak for themselves and would do better without text, standing on their own and leaving the interpretation to the viewer. So I took that approach, but, GoogleBot is blind to images. It reads textual content between <tags /> in your markup. It can see that I've been calling out to a different jpg on each page, but it doesn't know anything about that image, and has no way to decide whether this page is relevant to anything at all, and if so, what searches it should come up in.

Each of my photos is special to me ... there's some type of nostalgia that goes along with each one. So I've been adding the back story in a paragraph or two under the image. There's also different types of info that photographers tend to find helpful, like what the film speed was, which lens I used, if there was a tripod involved, and why I did x instead of y. I've been making a point to add this stuff, too, in as non-technical a way as possible.

That gives GoogleBot something to chew on, and it's brought people to some of my pages for reasons I never imagined. I had a case of writers block on my Olallie page, so I talked about how close it is to Seattle, and still not having enough content, I wrote directions from the city. Now I get all kinds of searches like "What exit for mountain waterfalls - Seattle area?"

So there's plenty to chew on.

Originally Posted by ForrestCroce

I'm not sure anybody answered this ... you've got a mountain of excellent advice in here, but I think the subject changed a little bit, probably to more important things. But I wanted to come back and give you a firm answer here.

Based solely on my experience, having a short phrase at the end of the title on a bunch of pages isn't considered spam. I showed you a handful of mine, with the name of the gallery at the end of each photo's title. I did this at VanGogh's advice ( and thanks for that! ) a few months ago. Right now I seem to have bout 85 % of my pages in the main index. I won't bore you with the benefits from this, but there doesn't seem to be any punishment. On the other hand, you should ask yourself why you want "Buy Now!" at the end of all your titles? I won't buy something just because my browser title says I should. Maybe someone will bookmark the page for something they like, and "Buy Now!" will help them find the right bookmark when they've got their girlfriend's approval? Apart from not wanting to do something that could be seen as spam, this is the kind of decision that you should make while pretending there are no search engines.

Now let's talk about something more important: what VanGogh is saying about the lack of content on your product pages. I've been fighting the same problem on my site. A friend of mine is an amazingly talented writer, so I asked her if she'd consider writing the text for a book I'm working on. She said that she'd be honored, but that my photos speak for themselves and would do better without text, standing on their own and leaving the interpretation to the viewer. So I took that approach, but, GoogleBot is blind to images. It reads textual content between <tags /> in your markup. It can see that I've been calling out to a different jpg on each page, but it doesn't know anything about that image, and has no way to decide whether this page is relevant to anything at all, and if so, what searches it should come up in.

Each of my photos is special to me ... there's some type of nostalgia that goes along with each one. So I've been adding the back story in a paragraph or two under the image. There's also different types of info that photographers tend to find helpful, like what the film speed was, which lens I used, if there was a tripod involved, and why I did x instead of y. I've been making a point to add this stuff, too, in as non-technical a way as possible.

That gives GoogleBot something to chew on, and it's brought people to some of my pages for reasons I never imagined. I had a case of writers block on my Olallie page, so I talked about how close it is to Seattle, and still not having enough content, I wrote directions from the city. Now I get all kinds of searches like "What exit for mountain waterfalls - Seattle area?"

So there's plenty to chew on.

Great ideas... We did once consider adding points to like what the fabric is, etc.... just giving more for the engines to chew on. What we ended up with is a bunch of pages that basically had the same content to them as entire sections of lingerie were of the same. At that time we were told that was too much as far as duplicate content goes...so we axed that plan. Im thinking if we kept on that path we would only show as that comparison program showed above the site being to much of the same.

Perhaps based on your experience we should have continued that and not stopped. And of course we were told by our customers as i did some polls etc, they really didnt care about the trivial information, they were there for the pictures and that was the only deciding factors. So, again as you can tell its quite confusing.

Now i can still now in a blink of an eye had more content to the headers, footers etc on all product and category pages,,,but they would be the same at this point. Do you think that would be a good thing to do? Or would that fall into a duplicate content scheme?

Also I do have great control on the product and category pages. For instance, stock Miva had a product picture at the top, then below it the descriptions and to the right the attributes. One of the things i was told to do by SEO firms is to by a module that would allow me to alter these pages so the Title would be at top in <h1> then below it the description, to the right the attributes and ordering buttons. All other things at the bottom. The idea was to get all the juicy stuff up top for the engines.

Now im wondering in your opinion was this the right thing to do. I can change the system fast as how things are displayed. For instance, our pages that have alternates are completely different in nature than the ones with single pictures. This was due to module settings that limited me some, so they are a bit different as far as looks go to the others.

So basically im wondering if you think the layout for the pages, Title top, then description is the best way?

Ive printed out all of these pages thus far from you all and am going over them over and over again. You all have been so helpfull to me and i appreciate so very much.

Hopefully in time i can stop worry about the engines so much and just think about conversions...... right now its a hard task just to think of them, with so little in the way of traffic.

PS - And as far as the endings go, i see your point..... So I just changed the endings to read after each category, product <Title> ???? | Girlfriends Lingerie

at least this way im getting a keyword in there, and my brand name also. What ya think? better? Or not?

One final thought, as asked above. if i did add more content to the tops, in a quick swoop explaining more for the engines, would it be duplicate content, or would the thigns on the pages now like the descriptions that are different, sway the filters to say they are not duplicates?

With over 1,000 products im sure you can see going thru each one to add some more content would take forever..and what to add would be a monumental task in itself. So i was thinking about just adding some mroe text to the footer perhaps..... although it would be the same across the product board, would that hurt anything? And the category pages could have there own footer also.

What ya think?

It seems that all the SEO bases have been covered so I won't comment on that.

Do you have an advertising budget? How do you use it? If I was running your business my first thought would be to purchase conversions rather than hoping they come through Google (by purchasing I mean leveraging quality advertising with sales).

If you aren't advertising it seems that your priorities might need some adjusting.

Originally Posted by Datagg

i did some polls etc, they really didnt care about the trivial information, they were there for the pictures and that was the only deciding factors.

How many people did you ask? I guess in your business the details sound less important, but I've been thinking about buying a telephoto lens for wildlife, and have looked into the weight, filter size, whether they come with a tripod color or not, shipping info, and all of that ... one of the reasons I tend to buy from B&H is that they make it easy to get this info on all of their products and compare across the board.

If having that info there doesn't bother 80 % of your viewers, but makes 20 % more likely to buy from you, it's probably a good idea. Basic stuff like whether it's cotton, silk, polyester, or whatever.

Originally Posted by Datagg

One of the things i was told to do by SEO firms is to by a module that would allow me to alter these pages so the Title would be at top in <h1> then below it the description, to the right the attributes and ordering buttons. All other things at the bottom. The idea was to get all the juicy stuff up top for the engines.

I tend to make the text in my h1 and title tags very similar. I don't repeat the gallery info in the h1, since it's more of a visual title, but in general the main theme is the same in both.

Originally Posted by Datagg

Hopefully in time i can stop worry about the engines so much and just think about conversions...... right now its a hard task just to think of them, with so little in the way of traffic.

I'm sure you've got some traffic from this forum, from people looking to give you some advice ... but I doubt any of them will "convert" into paying customers. Personally, I think most traffic is good, but you have to be aware of conversions from the start.

Republikin's advice to advertise to people who are likely to want your product sounds like a good one for where you are with your business.

Originally Posted by Datagg

PS - And as far as the endings go, i see your point..... So I just changed the endings to read after each category, product <Title> ???? | Girlfriends Lingerie

I think that's much better. It'll help make your pages more recognizable by creating something of a "brand." When one or two pages are in someone's list of bookmarks, they'll stand out a little more, help the person remember what they're looking at. Same goes for any links that use your page title as anchor text.

Plus, for the pages you have that aren't in the supplemental index, that will get you more keywords toward some general, more broad searches. "Get my girlfriend a nurse outfit" would pick up the product name, and girlfriend, in the title. Google understands singular/plural.

Originally Posted by Datagg

With over 1,000 products im sure you can see going thru each one to add some more content would take forever..and what to add would be a monumental task in itself. So i was thinking about just adding some mroe text to the footer perhaps.....

I would write up something unique for your most important pages ... the ones that will sell best, have the highest profit margin, are the best first thing for a viewer to see, or whatever best means to you.

Datagg take a look at this page I grabbed from the J. Peterman site.

This year you’re going to do it. Seriously.
Swim (horseback ride, cycle) first thing every morning.

It goes on to list a few other things you're seriously thinking of doing this summer. That makes a connection with the customer since it's likely that most every woman looking at this particular dress has a lot of things she plans on doing every summer. Most men do too. If you're reading these first few paragraphs you get the sense that the site knows you and is speaking directly to you.

Well, perhaps. But there are some changes you can make for an improved summer that take no time or will-power at all.

That 'well perhaps' is another connection with the customer. We all make those promises to ourselves and again most of us don't ever do all those things we say we're going to do, because we don't have the time for all o them.

And then the site tells you that while both it and you know you won't be doing all those things there is something you can do and it's to buy this dress.

Why? Because this dress is easy put on saving you time to get to some of those other things that you really want to do. It goes on to describe some other benefits of the dress and closes with the available sizes.

From a search engine's perspective the content is great because it gives them something to index. The title of the page is the living is easy dress and the page mentions those words again a few times throughout the content in a very natural way.

It's even more effective for the people who are browsing the page. The content identifies a problem and likely evokes an emotional response. It build a rapport with you in identifying with you and making that connection with you and it goes on to tell you why this product helps you solve that problem.

I guarantee J Peterman sells more living is easy dresses with this content than they would without it.

How many people did you ask that only care about images and how did you ask them? Are the people you asked real customers or friends and family who want to see you succeed? Did you lead them in your question in any way to get the response you wanted to hear?

In a brick and mortar store you would be there to answer people's questions. You're not there online and you need your content to be there to answer questions and provide more information.

I realize the people at J Peterman have been doing this for years and they hire some very good writers to create those pages. You're not going to have something that good from the start, but your goal should be to aspire to something like that.

Right now your pages are very thin on content. That's not good for customers and it's not good for search engines. Write something more for every page on your site and when you're done go though all the pages and improve what you wrote the first time.

I'm not saying you need to do all of this by next weekend, but if you really want to sell more you should add more content to your pages.

Originally Posted by vangogh

Datagg take a look at this page I grabbed from the J. Peterman site.



It goes on to list a few other things you're seriously thinking of doing this summer. That makes a connection with the customer since it's likely that most every woman looking at this particular dress has a lot of things she plans on doing every summer. Most men do too. If you're reading these first few paragraphs you get the sense that the site knows you and is speaking directly to you.



That 'well perhaps' is another connection with the customer. We all make those promises to ourselves and again most of us don't ever do all those things we say we're going to do, because we don't have the time for all o them.

And then the site tells you that while both it and you know you won't be doing all those things there is something you can do and it's to buy this dress.

Why? Because this dress is easy put on saving you time to get to some of those other things that you really want to do. It goes on to describe some other benefits of the dress and closes with the available sizes.

From a search engine's perspective the content is great because it gives them something to index. The title of the page is the living is easy dress and the page mentions those words again a few times throughout the content in a very natural way.

It's even more effective for the people who are browsing the page. The content identifies a problem and likely evokes an emotional response. It build a rapport with you in identifying with you and making that connection with you and it goes on to tell you why this product helps you solve that problem.

I guarantee J Peterman sells more living is easy dresses with this content than they would without it.

How many people did you ask that only care about images and how did you ask them? Are the people you asked real customers or friends and family who want to see you succeed? Did you lead them in your question in any way to get the response you wanted to hear?

In a brick and mortar store you would be there to answer people's questions. You're not there online and you need your content to be there to answer questions and provide more information.

I realize the people at J Peterman have been doing this for years and they hire some very good writers to create those pages. You're not going to have something that good from the start, but your goal should be to aspire to something like that.

Right now your pages are very thin on content. That's not good for customers and it's not good for search engines. Write something more for every page on your site and when you're done go though all the pages and improve what you wrote the first time.

I'm not saying you need to do all of this by next weekend, but if you really want to sell more you should add more content to your pages.

Wow great info.... I had a sit down with my partner and we did some serious brainstorming on things we can do for more content... You all have supplied lots of ideas and got the ball rolling on that journey.

Hopefully in time we will do you and the words you have spoken justice ....

Thank you all so much....

Glad we could all help and remember it isn't necessarily a race. I know writing all the content I've been suggesting is going to take time and then even more time to improve it.

Take things one page at a time and do what you can. Every journey starts with a single step.

Also don't forget to build links into your site. I think the issue with the supplemental index is not enough links for the amount of pages you have on the site. Try also to get links into deeper pages of the site and not just the home page.

Hey. Your site seems very well optimized for search engines, but what do you mean by supplemental listings?

If you have duplicate content on your site, I can see your site being buried for this reason.

It is also possible that your site is in Google's sandbox.

Please tell me what you mean by you having your site as supplemental listings in Google..

Originally Posted by Datagg

You mean the areas on the cateogory screens like
| Free Gift | Girlfriends Lingerie

And the product pages

| Buy Now at Girlfriends Lingerie

These suggestive terms where mentioned to me by a SEO firm that said it increased sales
, added urgency, separated the lines from the rest.

This ending is controlled by a module, that auto inserts this info
in after a products title, or category.

You believe that I should remove these xtra pieces adam and just go with straight titles
, meaning only the names and product mentions for titles?

As for the articles, i will work on making them more up front. One thing though.
I was always told to have articles on the main domain within the site , as WELL as in a blog.
You think i should just have them on the blog itself and not in the store?

Thanks again Adam for your comments

Yes, I believe you should remove the extra pieces and use just the product names for the titles. You'll pick up targeted niche traffic (by product name), and that traffic generally converts more than generic keyword traffic (something most SEOs have never, and will never, figure out).

If you keep your articles in two places, you run the risk of triggering a duplicate content filter. You can have an articles section that links to the articles in your blog, if you want to do it that way. Alternatively, you could have an articles blog category which also is linked from your layout template. There are a few ways you could do this, but ultimately, keep the final content in one spot.

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Yes, I believe you should remove the extra pieces and use just the product names for the titles. You'll pick up targeted niche traffic (by product name), and that traffic generally converts more than generic keyword traffic (something most SEOs have never, and will never, figure out).

If you keep your articles in two places, you run the risk of triggering a duplicate content filter. You can have an articles section that links to the articles in your blog, if you want to do it that way. Alternatively, you could have an articles blog category which also is linked from your layout template. There are a few ways you could do this, but ultimately, keep the final content in one spot.

Hello.... I put this together last night and was wondering if this was on track with your thoughts per above.

http://www.girlfriendslingerie.com/L...earticles.html

Just checking if im going in the right direction.

Thank you

Originally Posted by King Justice

Hey. Your site seems very well optimized for search engines, but what do you mean by supplemental listings?

If you have duplicate content on your site, I can see your site being buried for this reason.

It is also possible that your site is in Google's sandbox.

Please tell me what you mean by you having your site as supplemental listings in Google..

He means, I believe (just me guys) that he is talking about where his back links are, and not all back links you have the page will be indexed I mean. They still count though, maybe not on the big GOOG but I am beginning to think I have been messing with the wrong search engine (not that SEO doesn't help all, Google hurts you for not having PR ) :S lol.

Huh? Do you actually read the things you type before clicking the button?


Justice when you see results in Google sometimes you'll see them listed as supplemental. Do a site search (site:www.domain.com) for Datagg's site. I think it was on the 3rd page of the results where the pages started showing as supplemental. It might be further back though.

I don't think this has anything to do with the 'sandbox' which if you believe in it would only be in play for the first year at most. This site's been online a lot longer.

Originally Posted by vangogh

Huh? Do you actually read the things you type before clicking the button?


Justice when you see results in Google sometimes you'll see them listed as supplemental. Do a site search (site:www.domain.com) for Datagg's site. I think it was on the 3rd page of the results where the pages started showing as supplemental. It might be further back though.

I don't think this has anything to do with the 'sandbox' which if you believe in it would only be in play for the first year at most. This site's been online a lot longer.

yes the they begin 3rd page.... They bounce back and fourth sometimes, as last month they began at page 2, then at times page 6..Eitehr way, i just cant seem to get out of the supplemental.

With all the great help I have received here, i hope in time that will change.

Yes it hopefully will. But Please do keep us updated.

Originally Posted by Vasity

Yes it hopefully will. But Please do keep us updated.

I sure will... Thank you

Again i want to thank all of you for your comments. Some progress reports on it. Ive been doing some one way link via directories, etc.

The biggest thing thus far I have done is on the site as to make the Lingerie articles more prominent. There is now a link to them on the main page. That link will take you to a page that is a launch pad for the articles I have now taken off site, and out them on our blog.

I am also in discussion with some prominent people to have weekly article submissions and novels. So, i hope this will help and give my visitors and others seeking advice a home to visit.

One reason for writing to you today is to ask if what I have done thus far is correct? Thru the anchor text on the articles, to the content they show.

With so many more on the way, I just wanted to make sure this was the correct way to do this. I just finished the new look of our blog last night, so i hope that is appealing to the eyes also.

Thank you again for all your replies and i look forward to your views as i continue on this new path.

The blog looks good, though I would add a more prominent link for it, preferably in the main navigation just like the articles. It's hard to find now and I think most people visiting the site will miss it.

It sounds like everything you're doing is fine. One thing to know about anchor text is you want to vary it some. If all of your anchor text pointing to a page is exactly the same it will eventually throw up a red flag. Vary the text around a common keyword theme.

By the way you inspired a post on my blog the other day.

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Re pushing the articles: this goes back to your blog. Use your blog for the articles and informative stuff, build it up, let people comment on them, and basically merge the articles/blog section into one.

Why is that? Everyone keeps telling me I need a blog, and I don't really see much value to having one? Is it the feedback and sense of community you can build through comments? The informal nature of a post? Or something else I'm not thinking of?