SEO Tycoon

**techbiz** · 10-19-2006, 11:38 AM

Hello All
What is Black hat SEO after all. I have been doing SEO for a long time now and use the most genuine techniques listed on googles terms and Conditions. The title tag, the Links the Description metas and all the usual stuff. Could someone explain what BLACKHAT seo is . What is the thing which distinguishes Black hat seo from the White hat Couterpart
Regards and thanks in advance

Thanks

**jbladeus** · 10-19-2006, 12:44 PM

Actions which try to dupe search engine spiders can be classified as black hat techniques. Here is an extract of google's webmaster guidelines which defines things which could come under black hat: "# Avoid hidden text or hidden links. # Don't employ cloaking or sneaky redirects. # Don't send automated queries to Google. # Don't load pages with irrelevant words. # Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content. # Don't create pages that install viruses, trojans, or other badware. # Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content." complete guidelines: http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=35769

**vistadivine.com** · 10-19-2006, 12:53 PM

Well blackhat means doing the things that are not within the guidelines, simply cheating the SEs.

Akash

**vangogh** · 10-19-2006, 05:07 PM

I think we all mostly wear hats that are varying shades of gray. If you're looking for a strict line where black hats are on one side and white hats the other it's probably the guidelines at the search engines.

If you stay within the guidelines you would be on the white hat side. Do something the guidelines say not to and you'd be practicing black seo.

My own hat is a baseball cap. I have several. Most are an off white color, some light gray and they usually have brims in a variety of colors. I think I even have a dark blue cap.

Basically it's not all that important to worry about black hat or white hat. Just understand the risks of what you do. Learn what you might gain and what consequences might come your way from whatever seo tactic you try.

**In0ue'sHeArt** · 10-25-2006, 03:58 PM

Blackhat this is what you called a tactic used to increase search engine rankings using methods frowned upon by search engine companies.while whitehat is i can say that it is the legitimate optimization techniques to search engine companies, such as the proper use of meta-tags, & adequate keyword saturation and spider friendly page design.

**astrojith** · 10-26-2006, 11:20 AM

I think SEO is always black or atleast grey bcuz what we do is not the way it should be done. In an ideal websphere, webmasters and other people contribute data in crude form and let the SEs index them. We all work to spread knowledge. No greedy thoughts of money or popularity.

But, when doing SEO, we are fooling the SEs to feel that our content is better than any else's who has done the same. So, atleast we can conclude it as grey hat bcuz google recommends pages without SEO inorder to make it fair. But, we're not letting it happen.

**vangogh** · 10-26-2006, 03:44 PM

I think that's why the idea of colored hats can be silly at times. The very nature of SEO says we sometimes fo things solely for the benefit of a search engine. And any time we do are hats aren't so white as to be pure as the driven snow.

There are just tactics that are more or less agrresive. The agressive ones can get you banned so you want to be careful. I'm rather conservative in my SEO because I want my site and my client's sites to stay out of trouble and do well in the long run. There are going to be some that don't care if there domains are still in the index in a few months and a site like that may be willing to take more chances with their seo practices.

**ADAM Web Design** · 10-26-2006, 05:35 PM

I sort of agree with vangogh in that most SEO is done for search engine benefit and not for users.

However, there are aspects of SEO that can be done primarily for users, such as optimizing for accessible search. My biggest rule on SEO is "if it interferes with the user experience, it's blackhat. Otherwise, it's okay."

**Jason McCloud** · 10-27-2006, 04:28 AM

Black Hat SEO has many levels and it can be argued that if your building pages for the spiders and not your users then you are infact using a black hat technique. Hardcore black hat seo technique can defined by the webmasters who spend their time trying to beat the search engine algorithms with any and every method they can. Methods like text loading and keyword stuffing, alt tag stuffing, link spam have now become very basic old school methods. Nowadays massive auto generated data base driven million page plus sites are part of the current wave of search engine spam, scraper sites harvest or scrape content from other sites all over the web and then reproduce it as their own.

**vangogh** · 02:24 PM

I agree Adam. I don't think it's most seo that's done for search engine's benefit alone. I think many of us are thinking of people first and that most of what we do has benefits beyond search engines. I'd rather think of a link for the benefit of the actual link and not worry at all about how a search engine looks at it. Same with all the usability issues. When I create friendly URls or spiderable navigation I know it's good for people and it will help them find their way through a site.

But I think we've all done at least one or two things that we probably wouldn't have if it weren't for a search engine. I've certainly submitted sites to directories I doubt will ever directly send traffic. And I've also changed a word here or there on a page just because I thought a search engine might like it a little more than the original word.

I don't think those things make us black hats at all, but it does darken those white caps we wear.

I still lean very much toward the white hat side if we're putting labels on things. I'm not particularly aggressive in my seo, because I want the sites I work on to last. I don't want to risk them getting banned. But I can't say my hat is pure as the driven snow. I don't think there are too many people who could either.

I'm with you on making sure things don't interfere with users. When I change a word it still has to read well for people. And I won't change things for the benefit of a search engine if it means making things worse for a person visiting the site.

I'm just not thinking the labels of black hat and white hat make sense as bad vs. good. I think it's all just a different approach to how you want to market your site. There are things where I think black hat takes it too far. I don't think it's right for example to steal someone else's content or spend time actively trying to hurt their site. But if someone finds a hole in the algorithm and exploits it I really don't mind. I know that hole will be closed, the site possibly banned and that person will need to start all over again with another site.

I prefer the white hat side of things because I do want lasting success instead of the quick buck and I think it's a better business model to create something lasting instead of fleeting. I think it's better to focus on people instead of algorithms and create something of quality. It's more in line with who I am and my personal beliefs and philosophies. I'm not planning on trying to spam the search engines now or in the future, but it really doesn't bother me if others do, within certain limits. Most will just end up shooting themselves in the foot anyway practicing black hat techniques. It still takes a lot of know how to get black hat right.

**radman626** · 10-27-2006, 06:19 PM

When I was first learning about SEO, I visited syndk8.net a bunch of times to learn about black-hat methods (mostly out of curiosity). What I learned was most hard-core black hatters are in the Adsense fraud business. They target niche keywords, get their site indexed, and repeat the process many times. I don't know a whole lot about it but this is the general idea.

I sort of think "white hat seo" is an oxymoron and agree with the posters above: We all wear shades of grey.

**ashu@webnewtons** · 10-28-2006, 05:50 AM

black hat

- Black hat is used to describe a hacker (or, if you prefer, cracker) who breaks into a computer system or network with malicious intent. Unlike a white hat hacker, the black hat hacker takes advantage of the break-in, perhaps destroying files or stealing data for some future purpose. The black hat hacker may also make the exploit known to other hackers and/or the public without notifying the victim. This gives others the opportunity to exploit the vulnerability before the organization is able to secure it. The term comes from old Western movies, where heros often wore white hats and the "bad guys" wore black hats.

white hat

- White hat describes a hacker (or, if you prefer, cracker) who identifies a security weakness in a computer system or network but, instead of taking malicious advantage of it, exposes the weakness in a way that will allow the system's owners to fix the breach before it is can be taken advantage by others (such as black hat hackers.) Methods of telling the owners about it range from a simple phone call through sending an e-mail note to a Webmaster or administrator all the way to leaving an electronic "calling card" in the system that makes it obvious that security has been breached. While white hat hacking is a hobby for some, others provide their services for a fee. Thus, a white hat hacker may work as a consultant or be a permanent employee on a company's payroll. A good many white hat hackers are former black hat hackers.
The term comes from old Western movies, where heros often wore white hats and the "bad guys" wore black hats.

This is actually copied from http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/

Hope this would help you a lot

**ADAM Web Design** · 10-29-2006, 12:53 PM

No, it has nothing to do with the discussion involved.

That's security. Security and SEO are more or less mutually exclusive and the "hat" definition you posted doesn't apply.

**vangogh** · 10-30-2006, 12:57 PM

True. While the terms black hat and white hat are also applied to hacking it's completely different than the SEO hats.

And that's another debate entirely.

**TimuM** · 07-27-2007, 07:19 PM

You already answered your own question
I have been doing SEO for a long time now and use the most genuine techniques listed on googles terms and Conditions.
"BLACKHAT seo is"

SEO guys who do the opposite...hiding tags, using special scripts, creating dummy contents, etc etc

Thanks
Timu

**ghettocars** · 09:06 PM

Excuse my n00bish question, Search Engine Optimization is not my forte, I do however understand the theory and have common sense. Anyways, isn't this bad SEO practice and/or black hat SEO?

Example link: http://www.dranthonyramirez.com/

Image (just in case):

**chrishirst** · 03-04-2009, 07:39 PM

Just plain old stupidity!

**Feydakin** · 03-04-2009, 08:55 PM

1. There is no hat
2. yes, stupid

**ghettocars** · 03-04-2009, 09:09 PM

I figured it was. Anyone care to elaborate on why exactly it's stupid? I mean, I have seen it achieve results...

**chrishirst** · 03-05-2009, 05:52 AM

Sure it will work short term, just eventually the SEs figure out that they are all one single entity and filter out all the others.

In the case above they have redirected (302) all the other names so they have no effect whatsoever other than looking dumb.