Hi,

I need to come up with some substantial packages or plans to offer clients as far as SEO goes, this also could include some of the realated areas.

The price breakdown I have to work with for the 4 plans are as follows:
1. $99
2. $149
3. $249
4. $499
These prices are not set by me so its out of my hands. Though I do have to come up with a package that fits into each of these that can help clients yet, not have me working an entire week for $99 you get my drift.

I'm just not sure what would be fair for the clients at these prices and what could be done for them that would be a benifit to there site. I mean for $100 I do not think they will get much but it could be a start for a new web site. I am looking for any opinions or thoughts on each level of price.

I know each and every site is different and really needs consulting on and probably does not fit into some set package but, this is what has been brought to my table and I am trying to work with it.

Thanks for any help or ideas

You should come up with what services you can offer then the price, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by billythekid

You should come up with what services you can offer then the price, not the other way around.

Thanks Billy,

Yes I total agree with you thats why I am asking for help on this. The client feels this is really the only price range he can offer to his clients and be able to make a sell. They are lowerend web sites owners( I do not say that in a negative way just truthfully) and these people do not want to pay some one for any type of consulting but, would like a little boost if possible in hits, so he is trying to figure a way to give them an appatizer so to speak.

These are the price ranges he gave me to start so I am trying to fit something into them per his request. He is a sales man not a web or seo type, so after discussing this with him and him not understanding the concept of how these things work I have decided to try to come up with something even though it might be backwards. This is kind of why I was asking for help.

That's not a very practical way of figuring out prices. What skills does this guy have that set him apart?

Originally Posted by billythekid

That's not a very practical way of figuring out prices. What skills does this guy have that set him apart?

He is selling alot of web sites for around $500 which he has a designer for so these are not very big clients so to speak. Alot of them have mentioned to him that they would like to have some seo and or marketing done but probably they are not going to spend more on it then the sites themselves you see what im getting at.

I don't know really..... this is just what he asked me for and we agreed he would take a finders fee and I would keep the rest so I am trying to appease him. I can not keep arguing with him and if he wants something along these package prices what am I to do. Should I just say no and forget the whole thing???

Originally Posted by natetronn

I don't know really..... this is just what he asked me for and we agreed he would take a finders fee and I would keep the rest so I am trying to appease him. I can not keep arguing with him and if he wants something along these package prices what am I to do. Should I just say no and forget the whole thing???

Well, the risks here are your time and reputation. It's really impossible to come up with a package structure by writing up the prices and then tacking different levels of service to them. There are far too many variables for each site and set of keywords to prepackage things. If you streamline this for efficiency, your $99 package will wind up duplicating work the site owner and their friends have already tried, and give no results at all. Not a good thing to be known for.

The other guy set things up and is offering you an in ... but in business you have to recognize a bad situation and escalate it when it's necessary. Think of the most expensive scenario, break it down into its component parts, and explain each one, why you'd do it in this case versus another scenario, and if he doesn't understand the details, make him understand the complexity.

You can set up tiers of service, but you need to give yourself more flexibility. Imagine selling used cars for $1 K, $5 K, or $15 K, with nothing in between. Most cars should be worth maybe $3 K, or $8 K, so you over charge to the point that you aren't competitive. In a perverted sense, SEO is kind of like car insurance ... it might make sense for people to enter a URL and some keywords and get a quote.

Anyway, it's really worth the other guy's time to consider your input, but if you absolutely can't get around it, a generic solution might be:

• $99 gets you directory submissions, a hand-written listing on aboutus highlighting the strengths of the site, and a listing in your SEO company's directory, the one you promote as much as you can to ensure the client gets picked up by all the major search engines. Really basic, won't accomplish anything concrete, but it's a bit time consuming.
• More of the basic stuff, writing articles that link to the client's page with their keywords syndicated out, all that, for more money.
• Recoding the site to be as search friendly as possible, to be attractive across browsers, accessible, provide high quality content and link bait...

The thing is, the only links you can guarantee aren't worth almost anything. So even if people don't want to pay for a consultation, they're going to wind up getting far lower quality results.

With the amount of "SEO" I've done for my site, I wouldn't do it for someone else's for double your highest price. I wouldn't even consider doing that type of work without examining the site closely, and researching the industry and niche it's in. That's going to take a few hours, minimum.

I don't know what the answer is ... that's just food for thought.

Originally Posted by ForrestCroce

Well, the risks here are your time and reputation. It's really impossible to come up with a package structure by writing up the prices and then tacking different levels of service to them. There are far too many variables for each site and set of keywords to prepackage things. If you streamline this for efficiency, your $99 package will wind up duplicating work the site owner and their friends have already tried, and give no results at all. Not a good thing to be known for.

The other guy set things up and is offering you an in ... but in business you have to recognize a bad situation and escalate it when it's necessary. Think of the most expensive scenario, break it down into its component parts, and explain each one, why you'd do it in this case versus another scenario, and if he doesn't understand the details, make him understand the complexity.

You can set up tiers of service, but you need to give yourself more flexibility. Imagine selling used cars for $1 K, $5 K, or $15 K, with nothing in between. Most cars should be worth maybe $3 K, or $8 K, so you over charge to the point that you aren't competitive. In a perverted sense, SEO is kind of like car insurance ... it might make sense for people to enter a URL and some keywords and get a quote.

Anyway, it's really worth the other guy's time to consider your input, but if you absolutely can't get around it, a generic solution might be:

• $99 gets you directory submissions, a hand-written listing on aboutus highlighting the strengths of the site, and a listing in your SEO company's directory, the one you promote as much as you can to ensure the client gets picked up by all the major search engines. Really basic, won't accomplish anything concrete, but it's a bit time consuming.
• More of the basic stuff, writing articles that link to the client's page with their keywords syndicated out, all that, for more money.
• Recoding the site to be as search friendly as possible, to be attractive across browsers, accessible, provide high quality content and link bait...

The thing is, the only links you can guarantee aren't worth almost anything. So even if people don't want to pay for a consultation, they're going to wind up getting far lower quality results.

With the amount of "SEO" I've done for my site, I wouldn't do it for someone else's for double your highest price. I wouldn't even consider doing that type of work without examining the site closely, and researching the industry and niche it's in. That's going to take a few hours, minimum.

I don't know what the answer is ... that's just food for thought.

YES... THANK YOU for that Forrest. I completly agree with you on all points. And all of this was what I had discussed with him to the point of telling him he is going to be ripping off his clients and needs to offer them real seo and site optimization but he retaliates back with:

"Well they are asking me for it but the sites are only 5 page sites that we create for them and we only charge them 4-500 for the job, so how can I sell them SEO for more then there sites really cost"

I do know most of these sites have nothing done to them including stupid stuff like page titles for example so yes there is alot of fresh work to be done.

I kind of see where he is coming from But after a month of trying to explain to him what and how this really works(free of charge even) and how much time really goes into it to acheive real results I am left with what to do??? I feel for the guy he is trying to make a living, people are asking him for it but do not want to pay for the real thing, so I want to help him but I am just trying to do to it with out ripping off all of his clients

But to be honest he is the one who would be loosing the reputation not me so not sure if I should care or not. He does not want to send me his clients he just wants me to do the work.

Thanks again

natetronn: yes, you should say no and forget the whole thing, unless you're both the coder and the SEO. The days of standalone SEO are rapidly growing shorter, as most SEO issues are also issues of good design and good code. The designers/SEOs that realize this first are the ones who already have a lot of the competitive edge, and will continue to have it.

You might end up charging $99 to SEO a site that is so badly coded that no amount of SEO would get it to work, and when it fails "the cheap SEO" will be held responsible. Or you could collect both the coder and SEO paychecks and make it worth everyone's while, especially the client's.

In other words, I'm not going to come up with a service structure for you based on prices because ultimately, your clients would get screwed.

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

natetronn: yes, you should say no and forget the whole thing, unless you're both the coder and the SEO. The days of standalone SEO are rapidly growing shorter, as most SEO issues are also issues of good design and good code. The designers/SEOs that realize this first are the ones who already have a lot of the competitive edge, and will continue to have it.

You might end up charging $99 to SEO a site that is so badly coded that no amount of SEO would get it to work, and when it fails "the cheap SEO" will be held responsible. Or you could collect both the coder and SEO paychecks and make it worth everyone's while, especially the client's.

In other words, I'm not going to come up with a service structure for you based on prices because ultimately, your clients would get screwed.

Adam Thank you for that, Yes thats what I am trying to avoid is screwing people over. But they are not my clients they are his. I would just be putting my time in accordingly to what ever the price break down was.

And probably he will get it real quick when his clients very madly say "hey why did I just pay you 1-500 bucks for the millionth place instead of the billionth place on google that does me no good" Or "now I have twenty hits instead of ten uuuhh??? thanks for nothing"

Maybe then he will understand what I have been trying to tell him from the begining. Then maybe he will decide to offer a real service or to forget the whole thing.

Either way I do know he has lots of clients so I do not want to just tell him to forget it and have him go elsewhere. But he is not budging partly cause he just does not know better, see what im saying.

Thanks agian to every one

I'm just going to piggy-back a bit on Adams comments but add: if we are doing SEO for a client for whom we did not design the site, I don't even begin to give a price until I know:

a) If the client is going to give us 100% license to update code & content
b) How much rewrite (both code and content) will be required to give the site any chance of moving up in rankings.
c) How old the domain is and the 'patience quota' of the client based on the above factors.

Simply put: what are we starting with and what does the client expect over the short, medium and long term as regards traffic?

If your buddy is selling $500 web sites I'd find it very hard to believe his clients are serious about promoting their web sites. Most clients in this price range either don't take the web seriously or simply lack the cash to do any serious web marketing.

Originally Posted by seolman

If your buddy is selling $500 web sites I'd find it very hard to believe his clients are serious about promoting their web sites. Most clients in this price range either don't take the web seriously or simply lack the cash to do any serious web marketing.

Yes thank you Seolman, I think you are very correct on both of those statements. So there it is, he is dealing with those kind of clients who either one have not much money or two do not see the real power of doing business on the web. Possibly a combination of both.

So you feel there is absolutly nothing to offer this group? thats kind of why I came here for help. Cuase im trying to come up with something thats at least worth something to them but at the same time does not piss his clients off cause I know thats not good for business even if does not relize it.

So yes I guess its kind of a pickle to be in.

Biggest lesson you will ever learn in business: never sell yourself short. Customers buy on perceived quality, not on price. Fix a fair price for the services you provide. Those who are seeking the quality you provide will buy from you - others won't. Eventually you will build a list of clients who like your product and won't go anywhere else.

thanks everyone for you help and thoughts on this its was a very nice welcome to the community.

I must now sleep on this and start again fresh when I can think strait agian

night

Originally Posted by seolman

Biggest lesson you will ever learn in business: never sell yourself short. Customers buy on perceived quality, not on price. Fix a fair price for the services you provide. Those who are seeking the quality you provide will buy from you - others won't. Eventually you will build a list of clients who like your product and won't go anywhere else.

Thank you seolman, Yes sometimes even though we want to please everyone out there, the majority of the time this is just not possible and maybe we just have to let it go, move on and learn from the experience.

thanks

Originally Posted by natetronn

So you feel there is absolutly nothing to offer this group? thats kind of why I came here for help. Cuase im trying to come up with something thats at least worth something to them but at the same time does not piss his clients off cause I know thats not good for business even if does not relize it.

So yes I guess its kind of a pickle to be in.

Honestly? If you're not the designer and the designer doesn't know SEO (which is about a 99.9% chance?)

In a word...no. Sorry dude...there's really nothing you can offer at those price levels that will pick up traffic from anything other than longtail phrases.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the reality of your situation and I'd rather tell someone the truth and prepare them than to kiss their ***.

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Honestly? If you're not the designer and the designer doesn't know SEO (which is about a 99.9% chance?)

In a word...no. Sorry dude...there's really nothing you can offer at those price levels that will pick up traffic from anything other than longtail phrases.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the reality of your situation and I'd rather tell someone the truth and prepare them than to kiss their ***.

Adam yes your right this is what I had felt from the begining, and was partly why I came here looking for help to reinsure me on that point. It is the reality I am faced with and I accept that. As far as kissing his *** there will be none of that going on, but I was trying to change my outlook on the whole thing and with a "get it done" kind of attitude come up with something for the guy.

After explaining to him most of everthing you guys are telling me it just reinsures me that it can not be done and that I just have to leave it at that.

Thanks again