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A new tool for webmasters
Old 02-25-2007, 08:33 PM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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The stock market is not new to me; I've been involved with F&O for over 10 years -- their charts make far more sense to me than what I saw in your stuff ... IMO, it certainly isn't a "useful stock chart" by any means.

You're right -- make the manual basic the very first place for a novice to start, so they can get a feel for what you're trying desperately to convey.
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Old 02-27-2007, 09:57 PM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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how much is it?
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:17 AM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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It's free

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Old 02-28-2007, 03:25 AM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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I finally got around to spending some time with the extension. I sent a PM to Comaco with my thoughts and I'll post it here.

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I played with it for about a half hour this morning and I can see that it could become something useful. Obviously using it over a longer period of time will make it more useful.

I have to say it's hard to use and get started. One thing is the toolbar icon needs to be added to a toolbar manually. Otherwise I couldn't find anyway to start. I wouldn't add the icon automatically, but maybe something in the Tools menu. Just another way to open chartlets other than the icon.

I did look at the basic tutorial on your site to get started creating a chart. I didn't have any luck getting one working so I installed the Google results one and tried working with that.

Seeing the one chart helped me understand what I was supposed to do with variables. I'm not sure I would have figured it out without seeing the chart I installed.

Even with the chart I'm still not sure I'm following what I need to do with all the 'collect information'

The address and the depth are easy enough to figure out, but the other 3 are confusing. I know I need to add a regular expression, but I'm still not really sure what I would be trying to come up with if I was creating a new chart. I also think most people won't know regular expressions at all.

I'll keep looking at everything and see what I can figure out on my own. I do like the extension and see its value.

I think the main thing to work on is going to be documentation to make it easier for people to understand. I also think for a wider audience to adopt the extension you need to find ways other than regular expressions to define the information to collect.
---------------------------

Just to let everyone know what I did was use one of the existing charts to track where my site ranks for a few different keywords. All I had to enter was my domain and the keyword phrase I wanted to track and I've had chartlets checking every hour today to see where my site ranks for those phrases.

I don't get an exciting visual chart since my rank has been consistent all day for the phrases I'm tracking. But imagine if you used this to chart a phase you're just starting to optimize for and you can chart your improvement over time.

I did notice that chartlets didn't show exactly the same result on a couple of the phrases as I saw searching Google myself. That's normal though since you can get different results through the API as you might get when searching.

I can see potential in chartlets and remember that Comaco did say this is just the first version so it's not going to be perfect at the moment.

I do think it needs to be easier to use especially for someone without a programming background.

Comaco I was thinking in the tutorial you could walk someone through exactly how you created one of the charts detailing and explaining every step. You kind of do it now, but more detail and explanation would be helpful.

Having a link in the extension back to the tutorial on your site would be helpful. It will probably also drive traffic to your site.

I'm leaving it installed so let me know when you update for now so I can update.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:16 AM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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Vangogh, many thanks for trying the program and posting those comments. That will definitely help improving the application for everyone's benefits.

To summarize your remarks, most of them can read as 'it took me time to figure out how to ...'. So, as you suggested, effort must be put on the documentation.

Certainly the first point to be emphasized is that the extension has 2 levels of usage:
A- for people who want to generate charts out of existing chartlets.
B- for people who want to create their own chartlets because they have specific needs and the knowledge to do so.

From my perspective, i'd say that a good A/B ratio would be 1/20.

People from group A, the large majority, should not have to read 'regular expression' or 'xpath' anywhere, nor even understand what a variable can be. That should just be fields to fill in which are generally obvious: if you want to get the ranking of a site, it makes a lot of sense that you have to specify the search engine query and the site you are interested in.

People from group B are supposed to understand well the basics and should be able to dig into the documentation to figure out the details about how to create their own extraction patterns. I also plan to add to the site a forum for chartlet developers where tips and tricks can be shared.

I believe the most confusing thing in the current version is the embedded help. As it is easily accessible, users tend to click on it and as the embedded help mixes up groups A and B concerns, that raises more questions than it brings answers.

About the existing features, you are absolutely right about the way to start the extension, i must add an entry to the 'Tools' menu.

Also, another thing i find lacking is the capability to start a chartlet execution with a form submit. This will allow to extract data out of sites that require form authentication as an initial step. For instance, in one of my sites, i use 'ShareASale' as affiliation manager, but their reporting system is quite bad and do not display any chart. However, the Chartlet extension in its first version does not allow to go through the 'ShareASale' authentication page.

So, from the first users feedback, my plan for improving the product/service is that one:

1 - write a short introduction page to explain the very basic concepts: install existing chartlet, create channel, run chartlet, display chart
2 - review the basic tutorial, making sure the user can follow a path leading to its first chart
3 - add an entry to the tools menu to start the chartlets window
4 - embedded help will be disabled by default
5 - add a button to load the basic documentation page from the site
6 - add the starting form stuff to expand the scope of the extension
7 - add a forum into the site for people to share their experience on the extension

Thanks again for your contribution.
/mig
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Old 02-28-2007, 01:27 PM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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You're right in that there are two distinct user groups for the extension and using the premade chart was very easy.

If anyone missed it. I grabbed the google search chart and to get it to work all I had to do was add my domain and the keyword phrase I wanted to track. It was pretty much that simple.

I think adding a forum is a great idea. It'll give a place to answer 'how to' questions and once there are enough users there should be enough people offering support.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:07 AM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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That's been my point all along -- granted, it's in the 1st stage of development; but more thought should've gone into making it easy to use, not just for programmers, but even the novice who doesn't have those skills ... glad to see I wasn't the only one who had major trouble figuring it out.

My attitude about software development has always been this -- use the K.I.S.S. method (Keep It Simple Stupid) during development ... test; test; test using various methods and numerous people to go thru it; not everyone comprehends what the developer perceives as "easy".
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Old 03-02-2007, 06:00 PM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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Originally Posted by Comaco View Post
Hi,

I would like to mention a new software (entirely free as a firefox extension) to graph all sort of numeric values and see how that evolutes in the time.
It might be an interesting tool for webmasters to monitor ranking in various lists like search engines, or the size of DB tables.
Some extraction configurations are already available and you can easily create (and share) your own configurations.
Check http://www.chartlet.net for more information.
Careful, Google, and I would imaging Yahoo and MSN frown ( read ban ) sites that hit their service with automated queries.

As long as it’s not coming from your web domain it may be ok, still I would be careful.
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Old 03-03-2007, 06:28 AM Re: A new tool for webmasters
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Careful, Google, and I would imaging Yahoo and MSN frown ( read ban ) sites that hit their service with automated queries.

As long as it’s not coming from your web domain it may be ok, still I would be careful.
You're right.

The point is that all requests to Google & Co come from the user's browser as if it would call the search engine 'by hand', so i'm not too afraid about that.

BTW, Chartlet 1.0 has been approved by Mozilla admins: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4529/

I'm working on discussed improvements for version 1.1
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