Thanks John -- hope you're doing well and not sleeping on the couch anymore!

Actually; Shannon is not "HIS" real name -- we just have a "love-hate" relationship ... I love to hate the BS he spews...

* - SEOs are safe from the threat of automation taking over their professions. No one would build a robot to do nothing.
* - Talk is cheap…until SEOs get involved.
* - Old SEOs never die, they just lose their rankings.
* - What are SEOs good for? They make used car salesmen look good.
* - What do you call 25 skydiving SEOs? Skeet...

Hi Travelagent, I'm glad you decided to join us. I would love to see the actual SEO advice I have given out that is that false. I only remember one time please do list the links here. I would like to see them.

Originally Posted by overdrive

Oh seokit, you just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper. I understand what you are trying to say, but you have to think that emailing people your seo services is just not good. I get those emails all the time and I am not an SEO. When i see their sites and work, I laugh because most of them suck and the only way they can contact people is through spam. If you are better than them, then show it by increasing marketing through alternate methods.

You're a better SEO/marketer than you may think, especially if you don't market offline. The irony about the way most SEOs do business is that they find prospective customers through the search engines, and then contact them claiming their SEO methods suck using pretty much the standard spiel Shannon gave in his answer.

Any time I build a site for a new client, the first thing I tell them is that they will be contacted by SEOs within 6-8 weeks telling them how crappy their online marketing is. I used to say "in 6-8 weeks", but had to change my wording when it took one SEO 3 days to contact one of my clients. Fortunately, this is a client who understands at least the basics behind SEO so a good laugh was had by all (except the clueless SEO, and to be honest I really don't give a **** what a clueless SEO thinks).

Well, if I was clueless as you say, then how come I rank in so many terms well? And I mean competitive niches, not small time stuff

I agree that contacting someone about doing SEO for them may not be the most professional looking product. But it is effective in that it gets them thinking, plus my prices are lower then anyone else that I know of.

I have done advertising for SEO Consultation, and have gotten several calls for that. But it gets expensive when you don't charge several K a hour like most.

Just my 0.02


PS, my real name is Shannon!

Okay, you just entered the realm of being full of crap, Shannon.

"I'm competitive in all of these niches, yet I still need to cold-call my services."

What's that old adage? A leopard never changes its spots? Something like that.

I did not say all niches Adam Read what I actually say instead of just looking for what to rip apart

I said in competitive niches, I did not list any and I did not say all.

Originally Posted by theseokit

Hi Travelagent, I'm glad you decided to join us. I would love to see the actual SEO advice I have given out that is that false. I only remember one time please do list the links here. I would like to see them.

Joining you would be like having a hemorrhoid attack in a mall and not getting to the bathroom on time -- ohh; I won't list all of the links I showed you a few months ago; all anyone has to do is Google "theseokit" and look at all the forums you joined, pissing alot of people off ... especially Jill Whelan.

Is it a crime to join a lot of forums?

As to Jill, she did not like the way I gave SEO advice, thats her problem and has nothing to do with this forum Give me links

Originally Posted by theseokit

Well, if I was clueless as you say, then how come I rank in so many terms well? And I mean competitive niches, not small time stuff

Now this is an interesting point, or at least it will be, when I mention a personal friend of mine. The guy has a web site that's been up for about nine months, with a single page ( two if you count 404? ) based on a template from around 1993. It's hideous, has no content, and all the navigational links are <a href="#">. Can anybody say crap site? My friend can, and does all the time, constantly saying he wants to build a real one, but has other priorities. His domain name is his first and last name, with a .com TLD. I think more than anything else, he wanted to secure the domain, and come back to finish the project later.

He ranks #1 in Google on searches for his own name, and he was beaming with pride when he told me this. I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble - he thought it was a good accomplishment, although he's put no work into his site, so it's not an accomplishment on his part, and his name isn't a very competitive search.

But the guy has his #1 spot for a phrase that (a) doesn't show up in many places on the net, (b) is his domain name, and (c) is never searched on.

This says nothing about Shannon's keywords or SEO skill - it's more of a general point that needs to be made about keywords, ranking, and all that.

I agree LN!!!

But for me, ranking in my name Shannon Lilly is not going to cut it

So instead I took my site <link removed> and I rank around #4 for SEO Consultation. Not the largest word in the world, but it does the job for being a SEO Consultant. I am working on other SEO words now.

Originally Posted by theseokit

I did not say all niches Adam Read what I actually say instead of just looking for what to rip apart

I said in competitive niches, I did not list any and I did not say all.

Actually, if you had read what I had written you would realize that I had read what you'd written and simply reworded it.

Since nobody else has taken a stab at this, I'd like to try. Rather than over-quoting ( those take up lots of v-space ) I'm going to bold Travel Agent's questions, and italicize my answers. Would be interested in hearing how I do on this test, but I also think Travel Agent made a strong contribution here by giving us a checklist of what's truly important to optimize a site. And he's given potential SEOs a way to prepare for tough questions from potential clients.

Organic Search vs. Paid/Sponsored Listings

This depends on this site's budget, content, and target market. Paid advertising isn't necessarily a bad thing, although it can indicate failure in other areas if it's absolutely needed. In the right context, it can be a good thing.

What's at the heart of every search engine pertaining to algorithm?

Inbound links and their anchor text. There's a lot to do with on-page optimization, but votes from other people outside your site carry more weight than a person saying "I'm wonderful!"

Explain the difference between Indexing and Retrieval - which has more weight with SE's?

Retrieval is just getting the page. We do this in FireFox, and SEs do this with bots. If they deem what they see worthy, only then do they index it. If not, they read the content, then forget and move on to the next site. Being indexed means being added to the list of potential results for any given search.

There's now 3.5 Search Engines - we know who the Big3 are - who's the .5?

I'd say Google, MSN, then Yahoo, and the .5 would be Google X. Their book, image, blog, video, and other searches, plus personal coming down the pipeline?

Important Tasks of the SEO Practitioner - explain each of these; of how you tackle each one per client:

1. Objectives and budgets.

You get what you pay for, but it's silly to assume everybody wants the same thing. Do you want to get onto the first page, the #1 slot, or in the first two or three pages? More importantly, for which key words and phrases? Or do you have something good enough that merely being known by the SEs should be enough? Are we going to do off-page optimizations only, or is there interest and time to look over the site itself? How do we define a "conversion," and how do we lead the visitor down that path?

1. Clarify the business model.

Much like above. Is the client a non-profit wanting to spread awareness, or a store looking to boost sales? If we're dealing with a for-profit entity, do they have a good business model? Nothing worse than throwing lots of traffic at a bad site that will turn people off.

1. Domain name recommendations.

Most importantly, it should fit in with the concept of the site, and it should be something you can tell a person, with speech only, and they'll be able to remember it, spell it properly, and such. With that accomplished, if it can contain the most important keyword, this is a very sweet bonus, but shouldn't come at the expense of usability. ( Also, they should think about buying up related domain names, like the singular and plural form, and using redirects, so that when people do make a mistake, it doesn't cost the site a customer. )

1. Page names and file/directory names.

Same as above, although there's a small amount less emphasis on memorability here. It's not very likely you're going to say the full URL to an inner page, so as long as people can get to your site and navigate easily, the page names should be appropriate, but it should be easier to get a relevant keyword into them.

1. Deciding page titles; headers; and sub-headers.

These give the SEs some indication of what the page is about. Any keyword in the title is worth far more than it would be in the copy. On the other hand, we both remember a case when someone was banned from the Google index for keyword stuffing, especially in the title. Best rule of thumb is it should read well.

1. Keyword research and analysis.

I need to learn a lot more on this. But the gist of it is that you don't want to optimize around keywords that are either so competitive you don't stand a chance, or so obscure no one will find you through them. That leaves Goldilocks with the things that are of interest to your customers - just right!

1. Content optimization.

Sort of an extension of what we've already talked about, but content is the reason people visit a site, and it's the stuff SEs feed on. Still, quality is more important than quantity.

1. Internal linking structure development.

Site should be easy to navigate. There's really no telling what page a visitor might enter your site through, so from all pages, they should be able to reach exactly what they're looking for within two clicks at most.

1. Working with meta tags.

You want to use the NOODP and NOYDIR tags, and then create a meta description that will describe your page accurately and well. Something that will entice a person to leave the serps and enter your site.

1. 301 Redirects and robots.txt files.

Use robots.txt to keep things away from the search engines that you don't want them to see. A week or two ago, somebody posted a question about why they disappeared from the Google results, and the answer seems to be that they opened up their forums to search engines, allowing content and even links that are out of their control to be seen. Redirects tell the search engines that a page or domain has moved, and that what they know of the old URL should be transferred to the new one. These must be used if the client changes any URLs, say if they decide to change their file name system.

1. Monitoring site and term rankings.

Well no SEO can promise a #1 rank, but they can work toward it, and over time use this to measure the effects of their work. This is of course less important than keyword research itself - you don't want to see how you rank for Starbucks unless your site has something to do with coffee.

1. Monitoring site indexation.

As the site changes over time, the SEs should reflect these changes. On page optimizations won't do a thing if the engines don't come back and see them. Also, new pages should be added to the indexes rather quickly - a few days, max.

1. Creating strategies increasing the Link Profile.

Instead of creating a bunch of low quality links yourself, you want to get your site in front of people who will like it enough to give you a plug. This could be bloggers in your industry, reporting on interesting new concepts. It could be the article thing, depending on your industry. But it had better go beyond directories and exchanges.

1. Monitoring the latest search industry news.

Algorithm changes and link type devaluations can have a profound impact on a site's performance. Any SEO worth his or her salt knows what works today, not in the 90s boom.

SEO is considered a 'controlled organic campaign' - explain that.

Organic is the SEO version of what "grass-roots" is in politics. Your site is failing if the only people who look at it are your wife, children, and friends. It should spread on its own. Of course, it takes a bit of a push to build up its own momentum, and a guiding hand from time to time. An SEO suggests, but don't force. They know how to create a little bit of initial ( but sustainable! ) buzz.

Lastly; what's the most important item for an SEO to look at in every search engine that dictates what a Webmaster can do in optimizing a page, and what they can't do without incurring the wrath of the search engine, up to and including having your site permanently removed from the index?

The quality and webmaster guidelines from the search engine itself. Google gives a pretty comprehensive list of things that can get a site banned.

Hey John, wouldn't this test be perfect to show your bosses and have them ask the little seo-wanna-be those questions? Then stack his answers against yours, and you just know how this will end up? They'll realize, they have had a diamond in the rough all along and little Mr. seo-wanna-be can pack his dot-com bags and shove off.

Deb's right (as usual). You've already shown more information and knowledge than most so-called "pros".

I'm going to add a few things to what you said (since the gist of it is there):

1) Domain names. Multiple domain names can be recommended for a single site if all domain names ultimately redirect via 301 to the primary domain name. For example, I use (my email address)@adamwebdesign.com for people to email me with, but use adamwebdesign.ca for my primary web domain. This is because most people will type .com rather than .ca out of force of habit.

Side note: .coms tend to work better for offline marketing purposes for the same reason. I personally suspect this is especially true for our English friends. What's easier to for John Q. Public to remember, doggie.com, doggie.ca, or doggie.co.uk?

2) I'm not 100% sure what TA is referring to here either (I slightly suspect a trick question), but if I were to say anything, I'd say "social media" due to the rise in popularity that it has seen and the number of people who realize just how much traffic sites like StumbleUpon, Digg, etc. can generate (and the number of people who are trying to screw with those results, sadly.)

Mind you, I can see where your answer may be the one he's talking about too. I'm not really sure.

3) Monitoring the latest search engine industry news can be both productive and counterproductive if one isn't careful. The number of bad headlines, silly ideas, and manipulative advice columns is staggering sometimes (I'm reminded of Calacanis' SEO is Bull***t article) and sometimes a site owner who is on the right track may be led astray by the latest "I'm making tons of money by doing this to Google, look at this hole, 3-way link exchange, 4-way link exchange, buy ad space on CNN's website, etc. and so on." So read, but if it won't improve your site and its success, don't waste time on it."

Other than that, dude, you nailed 'er. Nice work!

Deb's right as usual -- the difference is, many of us catch "theseokit" in so much BS, it's downrigt laughable....

Originally Posted by theseokit