Originally Posted by KML9870

If you do not have a teacher of some sort, how do you learn what the choices are? Books can only tell you so much, other peoples experiences and their feelings about those experiences are just as powerful a tool to learn as reading, if not more so. Just because I have some one teach me about faith does not mean that I am not making my own decisions - better informed than I was before being taught. I have learned a lot of things about different religions from different people and made my own decision. In high school I was taught about Buddhism, Judaism, and different denominations of Christianity just to name a few.

Just because I have learned from other people does not mean that I did not make my own decision.

Yes but would you say that you believe what you believe because of the head of that certain religion or teacher?

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

Yes but would you say that you believe what you believe because of the head of that certain religion or teacher?

Partially. Not the head of any religion. I truly believe that the heads of all religions are corrupted by the power they wield.

Without the knowledge that I gained from teachers it is possible that I would have made a different decision. How can you make an informed decision without being taught?

Well I would say its the manner in which you are taught.

I would make a comparison, most kids believe what their parents taught them. Does that make them right?

Originally Posted by KML9870

I truly believe that the heads of all religions are corrupted by the power they wield.

a slight generalisation perhaps?

Originally Posted by Cheshire_cat

Well I would say its the manner in which you are taught.

I would make a comparison, most kids believe what their parents taught them. Does that make them right?

I would have to say it depends on the parents.

I raised my kids to think for themselves. In fact right now, DarkLink is in the process of making a major life decision (whether or not to join the military at this time, he wants to join, just isn't sure the time is right for him). I have helped him list the pros & cons, but also told him that it is a decision he has to make, not me. They both decided their own religious beliefs too. I gave them the information, taking them to different churches and exposing them to the teachings of others.

On the other hand there are parents whose opinions are law and their children had better not disagree with them.

Originally Posted by EMH

a slight generalisation perhaps?

No not really - by the time you get to the head of any organized group (not just religion), the core values and beliefs are difficult for the head of the group to see through all the mire of managing the organization itself. The only time this less likely to be the case is when a large group is led by a committee or board and the power/responsibility is not held by one person.

so do you think the pope has too much power? and that he may become corrupted by such power?

Absolutely, and it's not a question of he may become corrupted, the papacy corrupts. I'm not saying that they don't have good intentions or that they are purposely corrupt. What I am saying is that it is impossible to see all things at all times. The "big picture" of running a religous organization boils down to business, not the ideals and convictions of the religion. The higher up you go, the harder it is for the leadership to retain the vision of the local church that is doing the day to day work. The higher the level the more the church is run like a business. Sure, the pope conducts mass and prays and meditates, but he is also largely concerned with budgets and resolutions and boards/committees, etc.

kandi please! that quite frankly is rediculous.

Really - how many people do you know working for upper levels of church bodies? I personally know quite a few devoted people who work for different denominations from local church level to national levels and higher. I'm not speaking from an article that I read or a television show that I saw. Different people loose focus at different levels, but by the time you get to the top it is almost a guarantee that the person at the top no longer sees/considers the individuals on a daily basis. The business side becomes more the focus and the bigger priority.

but how would the pope, a loving man, be thinking about business. people willingly, without being asked, give frequent donations. religion has nothing to do with taking, on the contrary it is about giving and loving.
i have to say kandi that im shocked by your view

I didn't say that the Pope is not a loving man.

I have a very deep faith and have never disguised that here. I work for my church's governing body at a mid-level (not local church but a few steps below national). I serve God and his people on a daily basis. I am on a number of different committees at several levels.

The power and responsiblity that comes with the Papal office is stagering. When you get to the level of Pope and you are overseeing billions of dollars in offerings and billions of resolutions, etc, it is hard to keep Gospel lessons foremost in your mind. That is the corruption that I am saying lives in the papacy, not that the Pope is an evil, mean spirited man.

the pope has ABSOLUTELY CATEGORICALLY NO DEALING in terms of finances. he doest even have to think about where the money goes. that is all predetermined by parish comunity officials etc.

I can't speak for the pope since I am not catholic, but as for as the protestant world is concerned Kandi is a 100% correct. And I would not question me on this one, I know it, and see it first hand.

As far as the Pope, I would find it hard to believe with as much politics plays into the Roman Catholic church that it is not the exact same way.

And are you saying that if the Catholic Church went bankrupt tomorrow the pope would not be called into questioned?

The Pope is totally unconcerned about the millions of dollars that are being lost by dwindling membership in the U.S. and what the catholic church has had to pay out for sexual abuse.

I never asked about that.

My question was and I'll repeat...

And are you saying that if the Catholic Church went bankrupt tomorrow the pope would not be called into questioned?

So the only replies on this thread are supposed to be directly to Phil?

yeah the popes horrible, hes out to get us all
(slight sarcasm)

He doesn't have much besides his irrational policies.

Originally Posted by robertjordan

the pope has ABSOLUTELY CATEGORICALLY NO DEALING in terms of finances. he doest even have to think about where the money goes. that is all predetermined by parish comunity officials etc.

God's Banker.

Roberto Calvi (Milan, 13 April 1920 – London, 17 June 1982) was an Italian banker dubbed by the press as "God's Banker", due to his close association with the Vatican. A native of Milan, Calvi was the chairman of Banco Ambrosiano which collapsed in one of modern Italy's biggest political scandals, and his death in London in June 1982 has been the source of enduring controversy. Calvi's death was ruled as murder after two coroner's inquests and an independent investigation, and in June 2007 five people were acquitted of his murder after a trial in Rome.
Claims have been made that Calvi's death involved the Vatican Bank (Banco Ambrosiano's main shareholder), the Mafia (which may have used Banco Ambrosiano for money laundering), and the Propaganda Due or P2 masonic lodge.

Thanks John! I was looking for that, but had to leave work before I found it and am just here for a minute or two