$500 for Banner+Ranks!

**angele803** · 02-18-2009, 10:34 AM

I don't know that we can do much now that he has stolen one of the designs. I will try to get it taken down, but I can't guarantee that we can force him to do so. Please watermark your entries. This is an example of why it is important.

**lanj** · 02-19-2009, 12:49 AM

You guys should have known from the start that its kinda devious to pay $500 for just a banner.

**andrei155** · 02-19-2009, 01:12 AM

Actually, this would be an ideal price range.

**gilmojoman** · 02-19-2009, 02:23 AM

Very true.
Personally I work maximum an hour for every 50 dollars offered.
Any less and im selling myself short.

Though this one I can honestly say I made it in no more than 15-20 minutes.
I even forgot to watermark the thing.

For all you CH's
more money = more quality.

**cvb** · 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanj

You guys should have known from the start that its kinda devious to pay $500 for just a banner.

No. That is the kind of money we *should* be making for the work that's being done. $300-$500 is normal. As a matter of fact, the contests here are paying very very far underneath what this kind of work actually goes for in the "real world".

What made this guy fishy wasn't the price, it was the way he was acting, as well as his insistence that things get done "quickly" because there was a short time limit. That is a classic scam artist technique.

There's a few reasons why I'm here. First of all I'm just getting myself started learning how to freelance and be a designer. After 9 years of practice but not actually working in the field, I want to get my feet wet first. Secondly, competition, even though I'm not big on it, is something I need to get used to. And thirdly, an extra $50 in my pocket for doing something I can do in very short time period is hard to pass up. It takes longer to come up with the idea than to make something in some cases. Also, I'm still learning how to use programs like Illustrator and Flash, and I'm actually doing the contests here in those programs so I can learn them. Frankly, I need an excuse, a motivation to make me learn new programs and I have a hard time coming up with that on my own.

I'm willing to bet that, aside from the fun of a contest, is why plenty of other people are here too. Don't come in here thinking $30 for a logo is something you should accept as normal if you are planning on being a professional designer.

And actually, a few days ago I decided I am going to upgrade and try my hand at getting real clients for real money. But I'll still be here since technically I'm still a beginner.

**katers** · 02-24-2009, 07:55 PM

Hi guys can I just interject my opinion as someone who has made several of these contests? I absolutely agree that you do not get paid enough for a lot of these contests. It seems to be a problem with any field you work in. However, from my personal side I cannot afford to offer more and frankly if I could, I would go to a local graphic designer or invest in software for myself since I do have training in it. (I said training, didn't say I was that great, lol)

What I like about the online contests is that I can afford to have more designs done, more often, when I need them. Some of the contests I have been blown away by the submissions and have a hard time deciding and sometimes the designs are so bad I struggle to find something positive to say about them. Either way I really appreciate the fact that these type of places are available. And you never know what that little $30 job could lead to.

A brief story. Last year I had a contest and one of the submissions was really cool but not what I was looking for. However, I have a friend who needed a graphics person for their new start up company and thought their style would fit. To date this person has made several thousand dollars and still doing work for them. If this person is still on this forum they should jump in here. Anyway, from my side, even though I cannot afford the big payouts, I do appreciate the work that is done.

Stepping off my soapbox now.

**andrei155** · 02-24-2009, 09:06 PM

Sucks how this ******* just ripped a design and disappeared.

**cvb** · 02-25-2009, 03:43 AM

I certainly don't have any issues with how much money is being offered here. Last thing I won here was $20 and I was glad to do it.

I have issues with people like the guy who thought $500 was too much. That thinking is bad news for both clients and artists. All too often I see talented artists who undersell themselves too low and laymen who think what artists do isn't worth more than a few dollars.

I think this place is great, but I'm not a professional artist out for money. I'm here to hone my skills. If I WAS out for money, then I wouldn't be here competing for $20 prizes. This is, for me, fun and education, and I hope other people are here for that too. I can't begin to tell you how invaluable this (and other places like this) are for me because I have learned more about design in the past few weeks than I ever did at art school.

At the same time I hope people (both artists and buyers) don't get the wrong idea as to how much this work is actually worth. If you really want to know the truth, go to the library and look at a copy of the Graphic artist's guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines.

So my opinion is even though the prizes are "relatively" low, CHs should offer whatever they think is good and we as artists will make the determination as to whether or not to participate based on our own values.

**johniman7** · 02-28-2009, 07:49 PM

Hmm, looked fishy from the begining. Shouldn't have posted real size, also shouldn't have to worry about it though. Please, anyone interested in helping me get the work taken down, hit me up on AIM SN: jlimedia

We will get it taken care of.

**fdansv** · 02-28-2009, 09:44 PM

It actually doesn't matter how much did he offer. The fact is that speculative jobs like this damage the design industry. If you're going to make a design work for somebody make sure you have half the total amount before you start. Logo and banner contests are absolutely awful in general.

Get this idea: If you want fish for dinner, you don't post in a forum offering $100 to the cook that makes the best fish. You go to a restaurant and order it, compromising yourself to pay whether you like it or not.

Let's stop permitting more humilliations on this profession, people! Speculation is unacceptable neither in design nor in kitchen, laws or whatever.

**andrei155** · 03-01-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdansv

It actually doesn't matter how much did he offer. The fact is that speculative jobs like this damage the design industry. If you're going to make a design work for somebody make sure you have half the total amount before you start. Logo and banner contests are absolutely awful in general.

Get this idea: If you want fish for dinner, you don't post in a forum offering $100 to the cook that makes the best fish. You go to a restaurant and order it, compromising yourself to pay whether you like it or not.

Let's stop permitting more humilliations on this profession, people! Speculation is unacceptable neither in design nor in kitchen, laws or whatever.

'

If you want to buy clothes, do you hire someone to make it for you, paying them upfront - not knowing if you're going to like it or not? OR, do you go to a clothes store and compare whatever is for sale?

**fdansv** · 03-02-2009, 03:17 AM

Quote:

If you want to buy clothes, do you hire someone to make it for you, paying them upfront - not knowing if you're going to like it or not? OR, do you go to a clothes store and compare whatever is for sale?

There is a big difference: if you go buying clothes they are already made. You can try it and see if it fits well without the need of disturbing someone If you go to a tailor the thing changes, and of course, you don't usually make an online contest to get suited. The problem is that people underests very much the design profession and think that everyone with a cracked Photoshop can make a good logo. If you look at the banners that were posted at this thread, and if you know something about graphic design and marketing (and not SEO marketing, eye catch marketing), you'll coincide with me that they are absolutely inefficient and not professional.

**cvb** · 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdansv

If you look at the banners that were posted at this thread, and if you know something about graphic design and marketing (and not SEO marketing, eye catch marketing), you'll coincide with me that they are absolutely inefficient and not professional.

But, if you are looking at it that way, why is it a problem? I read somewhere that this is kinda like thinking mcdonalds is competition for a steakhouse. Buyers will get what they pay for - exactly what you see, which apparently to you is crappy quality (admittedly in this thread by several people they were done in a few minutes because the contest only lasted 3-4 hours).

This scam aside, you know as well as I do that normal joes don't understand what good design is, and as far as they're concerned a hack job DOES cut it and they'll gladly post a $30 quality logo on their website. I think we are talking about something that is no longer related to this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on this issue. I just thought of what you said about payment for designers and then now you say, well, the art here sucks. So there you go, question answered. People who know better will hire real designers for real money, and they won't work on spec.

After the last contest I'm in is done I had actually decided a short while ago to stop coming here for them because recently I've gotten several clients and have made $500 just last week on 2 projects. I can no longer waste my time on $30-50 projects, that's just the bitter truth of it.

You can look at this site as something aside money: Exposure. This place has networked people to real jobs, even me. Because without networking I never would have gotten the real money jobs. The only problem I can see with a place like this is that watermarking isn't real protection as far as I can see. Anyone on here who is at least sort of a decent designer is running a few risks. Also, working on spec, now that I look at it from my new monetary situation, isn't a good idea. And certainly not for this money.

But NO regrets. I still think well of this place and the good artists here. I'm walking away unscathed, no regrets and no problems encountered, and I learned a heck of a lot of stuff in the process.

**Evo'D** · 03-09-2009, 08:00 PM

The joys of been a designer