General Discussions

**mikesilvia** · 09:33 AM

If you are even considering using eLance do NOT. It is one of the biggest scams on the internet. Read my story and you decide for yourself.

I needed some programming work so I decided to try eLance out. I did some Google searches and found them. I know HTML and some CSS, but that is the extend of my web design knowledge.

I needed a job done with localoracle.com so I posted up a project. I got several bids. You will generally find Indians and Russians bidding on your projects. I hired some Indians at $20 an hour because they had some fantastic feedback and earned over $1 million through elance. eLance ranks them as "experts" on some 20 area of programming (i.e. PHP, ASP.NET, etc) and other areas. Everything seemed legit and I was happy to have some great, qualified coders that were proven. Boy was I wrong!

SynapseIndia is the company I hired. They started work and everything went well. I paid for 100 hours up front because they gave a discounted rate of $18 an hour if you did this. After the first 100 hours everything seemed great and I left feedback. They were getting things done, so I added another hour hours at $1,800 ($3,600 total now). I had a list of about six things I needed done with the website and they had accomplished five so far. My web site APPEARED to function for the first 5 items. The final item I needed done was the biggest so I added another $1,800 for another 100 hours. Then everything went down hill!

I had a long-term friend of mine and outstanding coder do a small project for me. A small add on to the site to detect someone's IP and display items based on their state. He looked over some of the code and sent me an e-mail that made my mouth drop.

First, he stated that NOTHING was secure and that Google was already caching Admin areas of their work. Basically, anyone could access the admin area because SynapseIndia failed to do basic permission work. Second, there work they did was simply a "cut and paste" code work that was NOT integrated into vBulletin (the core software). The code was a mess and also had security holes a mile wide. Any kid could hack the site through the work SynapseIndia did. Basically, everything appeared to WORK on the website, but nothing was iterated, there were HUGE security holes, and search engines were archiving admin areas. The list was a page long of the problems with the code!

I immediately STOPPED the work at eLance with SynapseIndia. I lost $3,800 and the third $1,800 I deposited was still in escrow.

I asked eLance to immediately return the third $1,800 payment since SynapseIndia never started on the 100 hours. I then asked eLance to assist with recovering some of the $3,600. I stated I would like to fix the SynapseIndia code and should get a refund for whatever it costs me to replace the code.

SynapseIndia stated that I can have the 100 left over hours as credit for future work (What a JOKE). After a few days, eLance stated, "Your dispute is closed. It is out of our hands and you must now take this issues to court."

Even more funny is that they will NOT let me leave a second feedback. After the first 100 hours they asked me to leave feedback. Since everything appeared to work fine, I left them GREAT feedback on eLance. Well, now that I got ripped off by SynapseIndia and eLance they will NOT let me leave anymore feedback. By right, I'm suppose to leave feedback for each 100 hour block I paid. Now I know why SynapseIndia has "great" feedback because most of their feedback is probably much like mine.

eLance will do NOTHING to help get your money back while making a nice commission off the work. Their coders are mostly Indians, Russians and other coders that likely can't program at all or have an intro level understanding. The eLance feedback system is a sham because once things go down hill the feedback system is shut off. Their "escrow" is a sham because they take a commission and send the money along BEFORE any work is done on 100 hour blocks. Before a single hour was started on the third 100 hours they send the $1,800 to SynapseIndia (after their cut of course).

I'm likely out the $4,800 and it will cost me $4,000 to get the job done now. How in the world will I go to court with an Indian company? I'd likely spend $5,000+ on legal fees and likely lose the case because I'm sure the Indian economy needs company's like SynapseIndia.

Please pass this story on to as many people as possible. SynapseIndia and eLance is a scam and people need to know!

Just type "elance scam" in Google!

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...68b976b7ed8171

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Websites...n-by-m75ef.htm

**chrishirst** · 08-19-2010, 10:21 AM

It's pretty much the same with most "freelancing" sites I would suggest.

One of our hosting clients decided to go to a freelance site (no idea which) and hired Russian "programmers" to build a bespoke & specialised CMS because they were cheaper and a bargain at £5,600 (GBP)

Well, two years on, several "virus" website hijacks later and a half finished site, source code that is commented and annotated in Cyrillic, a disconnected phone number, bouncing email address, and a abandoned Skype id for the programmers they are now trying to re-negotiate.

Well prices have gone up in two years

**chrishirst** · 08-19-2010, 10:23 AM

Oh, and of course it's not just freelance sites and programming that can be a risk place to hire "experts from"

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/seo-ta...o-company.html

**Giselle** · 08-19-2010, 11:36 AM

All I can say is I am truly sorry Mike, that's a lot of money to lose. To publish the information publicly surely will help others from using their services, if one could call it that.

**wayfarer07** · 08-19-2010, 12:06 PM

Then again, if you hire the right person and manage them well, freelancing sites can be a perfect place to hire help for less than the normal budget. Did you know that Digg was created by hiring a freelancer from Elance? The original cost for creating Digg was only $200, at $10 per hour.

Although it seems like you followed all of the correct steps in this case (checking feedback, taking several bids, etc), it may be that you simply shouldn't have hired an overseas company in the first place, at least not such a large one. After all, a company is only a sum of the people within it. A large company looking to expand will often allocate less experienced resources for smaller projects ($4000 budget is a relatively small project).

You would have almost undoubtedly been better off hiring individual freelancers, or a small company to do your project. With individuals, you can look at each portfolio and ask what exactly his or her role was in each project taken part in. Also, with an individual, there is no chance that you will be communicating with someone who in the end is not actually performing the responsibilities that are needed.

It has also been proven that you will get better quality from outsourced projects if you take the initiative to find individuals to bid on your projects, instead of the other way around. In your case you simply posted a project and allowed anyone who noticed it to bid. This gives you a much lower quality of selection, because those who are most qualified are often waiting for clients to find them, and do not actively seek new work. They have enough clients currently to make a living, and reserve some extra time for when the best opportunities will present themselves. Those who bid on projects in the open marketplace are often doing so because they are in need of work, so they bid on as many projects as they can so as to increase the chance of landing the work they need. This means they are not always bidding on projects that are a perfect fit for their skill set.

As far as Russian programmers go, some of the most talented programmers I have ever worked with have been from Russia, the Ukraine, or other parts of Eastern Europe. Their overall level of education and talent seems to me to be much better than many other places, including the United States. Indian contractors generally have a lower reputation and lesser education, but it's still only a matter of a thorough selection process. In both cases the primary disadvantage is time zone and communication skills, not talent. Although, most people I've worked with from the Eastern part of the world will stay up into late hours, so they are available during US timezones (which is where I am).

Another thing you can do, instead of outsourcing, is "in-sourcing". Hiring people from one's own country has become very popular on "outsourcing" websites. Here in the US, the amount of money required to maintain a quality standard of living varies greatly depending on what region of the country you live in. For example, I live in Western North Carolina which is a relatively inexpensive area, but many of my clients are from New York, Connecticut, Los Angeles, etc, where my moderate charges are actually quite a bargain.

Places like Elance are definitely not a scam. It is simply a marketplace full of people, the vast majority of whom are not local to your region of the world. Fortunes are won or lost in any marketplace. The remote-work economy, which is growing at a very rapid pace, is simply following the familiar pattern of any economy which expands quickly. Sometimes this means workers are entering the marketplace due to demand, and are doing so before they are fully ready. You need to be extra careful in your selection, or your work will end up being taken care of by lesser experienced people being hired quickly by companies who need to meet an increased workload.

**documaker** · 08-19-2010, 04:10 PM

Using vWorker (Rentacoder) would have prevented this for sure! There, the coders would have never been paid if you weren't satisfied with the way the product worked, first.

**NullPointer** · 08-19-2010, 10:50 PM

I think amateurism is a big problem when it comes to web development. I freelance off and on when I need to make some extra cash on the side. A large portion of what I've done in the past is basically cleanup work; either explicitly cleaning up the mess some other coder left behind, or dealing with the side effects of bad code.

There are a lot aspects of programming that are difficult for someone who isn't a programmer to evaluate. Because of this you end up with situations like the one described by the OP: To the contractor, everything appears to be fine, but when someone who knows what to look for steps in you find out that you're paying for a hack job.

My advice, if you're going to use services like elance for large projects, is to have someone you trust on hand to evaluate the work.

**dWhite** · 08-20-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NullPointer

My advice, if you're going to use services like elance for large projects, is to have someone you trust on hand to evaluate the work.

Also don't pay upfront for the service, in case the person(s) try to screw you over.

That's how I do my freelance related work, I don't accept payment until I am complete and show the client the work and make sure it is as they wanted first.

**galvanmaria** · 09-20-2010, 12:32 AM

Hi Mike,

Just came across this post...funny I almost hired them. I ended up hiring another provider BUT I feel the coding, security, etc...is about the same. Does your friend check code on the side? Would he be willing to review my site for a fee? It's not completed yet and I still owe the provider money so it's perfect timing!

Thanks for your post!
M

**webtraffic.co** · 09-21-2010, 08:36 PM

I've used elance and another site and have never been scammed. I pray that I never have to go through this. Sorry to hear this.

**Colossal** · 09-22-2010, 02:14 PM

Wow, that's disappointing! I've heard some great stories of good work being done with eLance

I would probably try to negotiate with someone on their end. I doubt it'll work but it's better than nothing.

**E-Right** · 02-05-2011, 01:53 PM

This was a horrible Elance experience. Being an Elance provider (a writer, not a programmer), I think there were certain red lights here-- like the big discount if you paid upfront. I actually rarely ask for anything upfront and if I do it is a very small amount of cash. Elance has an escrow system that works well to protect both buyers and providers.

Often, and I am not saying this is the case here, buyers want to save money (who doesn't?) and they will definitely go with a cheaper price and often, but not always, find the quality to be inferior.

I'm surprised the site did not try to remedy the situation but unfortunately this may be due to the terms you set up. As a writer on Elance, even with the escrow system, I have been taken by clients. But that has not negated the site's overall efficacy.

What I learned as a provider (and once again both buyers and providers must do this) is to really do my homework and check out buyers. I provide reasonably priced services (not cheap but not expensive) and my writing is first-rate. (I am consistently rated in the top 1/2 to 1% of the over 76,000 writers on the site.) But I look for discerning clients who want such work. Buyers need to do the same thing on their end.

For the record-- about 10% to 15% of my clients hire me after going with a cheaper Indian company for writing services because the work was so poor they could not use it. Not all companies in India are bad. However, English is NOT their first language. Thus, the results are often poor. I can speak and write German fairly well. but would never sell my services in that language.

Final word-- terrible experience but not damning to the site; SynapseIndia should be...well you decide. Elance is not a scam. Like every company they do have to constantly attend to problems and make improvements. As a five-year vet, I'd say overall they have done so. Just my opinion, of course.

**Tray76** · 06-01-2011, 01:28 PM

I'm only posting here because I am truly unhappy with the way Elance is conducting my "Dispute."

And I truly agree that vWorker has much better customer service than Elance. My money is still stuck in the stupid Elance Escrow and nobody is replying my emails to close the dispute and return my money even though I and the provider have already agreed to both cancel the project.

So my warning is - Do NOT use Elance because if you get into trouble with a provider there, Elance will take ages to return your money, assuming they even do so, and do not outright steal your money!

They only give an impression of being professional but like I said, you are going to have a huge problem if you ever get into a Dispute. Nobody attends to it.

This is their primary task as a business of this sort, to attend to Disputes and resolve them speedily. Elance FAILS in doing so. There seems to be nobody managing the show.

I wonder if filling a Paypal dispute, and also filling a complaint with the BBB is the way to go? I've used other freelance sites and never expected to get almost ZERO customer support.

**jmarkle** · 06-13-2011, 11:02 PM

First off, let me just say as a web designer and an American that this is your own fault. This is the exact reason that our country is hurting, people outsourcing simple jobs like this because they're to lazy to research more and get the job done right by a more trusted and recognizable company or in this case coder. You pretty much got what you paid for, and I can say that I hope you've learned your lesson.

**dridge** · 07-10-2011, 01:49 PM

I posted a job on Elance. I did some research on a company that bid on the job. That lead me to research other companies that had bid on other jobs. I soon began to find that many of these offshore companies had:

1) Portfolios of web designs for non-existent companies / websites. Logos and website designs for seemingly real sound organizations. However, when you search on them, they don't exist. So, I can understand why you might post some designs of this sort if you are first getting started, but a company who has supposedly earned 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars or even millions of dollars - - - doing logo and graphic or web design work - - - has nothing to put in their portfolio that is real ?

2) Most of these 'vasts' amounts of work and jobs going back to one or two 'customers' nearly all within the last few months. And further, many of these companies getting fabulous references from these same few customers in the same period of time. These references often come from a single offshore customer with sometimes very large sounding jobs that appear to have been accomplished in a few weeks. And looking at the jobs from the providers, this speedy work appears to have been accomplished at the same time that several other projects were running from these same providers for this same client. But then when I researched some of the other high earning providers, and find them getting high volumes of work and glowing references from the same clients - - - during the same period of time - - - again finishing jobs that add up to these high earnings in record time - - - ? ? ?

I don't know - - - but this all looks very hokey to me. It almost looks as if people are getting paid to give "World Class" references. I was trying to figure out how this was possible, given that Elance would seem to take it's cut of any of that 'money' that changed hands. I can't see how that would be profitable. Then I started wondering if there was some hack of the Elance system happening here.

I don't know. This just doesn't look right to me. I don't know what is going on here - - - but I think I might agree that small US providers - - - even not hired on Elance previously - - - might be safer. How do you take a company from India to court if Elance is not going to back you up ?

And regarding the initial post of this problem, I might add a code review and acceptance test and fixes as part of the criteria for getting paid ( as milestones ).

**dridge** · 07-10-2011, 01:57 PM

Well, I said "many of these companies". I should have clarified - - - many of the high earning companies I researched - - - which was only about 5 companies.

**samv5** · 08-30-2011, 05:50 PM

I have had similar experience with Elance. I selected a bidder, Agiletech, who had 100% score from hundreds of users. They promised me to completed the job in 3 months, but it took them 2 years to finish half of it, but it still doesn't work.

When we complained Elance and asked for a refund of my payments, they suggested mediation and then arbitration, which cost me an additional $200.

Shockingly, in spite of providing the Arbitrator evidence from a third party, a US-based developer, that the website had been poorly coded, the arbitrator arbitrarily decreed that the contract to be terminated and funds to be released to the Indian contractor.

Elance also didn't allow us to post a feedback on our experience with Agile Tech, which explains why Agile Tech get a 100% score on their books.

Now we are left without the money and without a website.

**weblover50** · 08-31-2011, 06:11 AM

E-lance was pretty good. I listed my profile there years ago and forgot about it, but got a mail from a client and making some good money writing for him. However they send a lot of spam e-mails.

**visiontree** · 09-02-2011, 07:17 PM

Thank you for sharing the particular company that gave you a terrible experience with eLance. Personally, I've always had great experiences with eLance. Of course, I've never ran into such a problem as to where I need to ask them to reimburse me for some of the funds due to a lack of the job getting completed.

However, I can say the one reason why I think I've never experienced this is because I've always done an extensive interview with each client I've taken on. It's seem to work out for the better for me so far.

**amultani** · 09-03-2011, 10:24 PM

Well
i suggest that never join any freelancing site that have fixed rate jobs. the employers will not pay you and you will work for them for free.