I am averaging 60 million page views a month...no ads tho..how much am i missing out

**conceptart** · 10-29-2007, 08:57 AM

Hello,

I am the founder of a large online digital art and entertainment art community which is averaging the following stats:

1. 60 million page views per month
2. 1.2 million visits per month
3. 700k uniques per month

75 percent is american traffic the rest is europe mostly.

the demographic is mostly 16-35 year old males (the video game crowd with a creative education) very tech savvy...most educated and highly talented.

we have extremly high quality and unique content including tons of exclusive art for major video game and movie projects that go up in our community.

nearly every major entertainment corporation has members on our website, from microsoft to sony to ea to nintendo to ILM to Weta Digital...you name it, they are on there.

we run the site as a non-profit organization and have always spurned ads. we fund the community through training workshops which bring out most the big companies and about 300 art school students each shot at about five hundred bucks a head. We also have dvd educational content and downloadable art education content for sale that does very well.

Now, today we were pushed to do advertising by another company due to our traffic numbers and I am seriously wondering...how much are we missing out on by continuing down the "no way do we sell out" path. It seems that CPM advertising is the best way to go but it also seems like rates have gone way down over the years.

Most the sites I am finding with sixty million page views a month are claiming a 20k-70k a month revenue stream. This is not possible is it? It seems way bloated to me for just having some banners up.

Any advice is appreciated. We give all our money back to the community in form of scholarships, educational programs, and improved technology (the galleries are currently down for updates).

Are we making a mistake by not doing ads? Is there really significant revenue to be had with traffic numbers like ours? It is of note, that our traffic has doubled every year for five years in a row. We are about to undergo a major expansion into other niches and we are reconsidering our biz model.

Best,

CA

**xboxundone** · 10-29-2007, 12:37 PM

why not do ads or sponsorships of the site? As it only gives more back tot he community. and that rev stream is not unrealistic for 60 mil page views at all. I think your users woudl put up with an ad or two if it meant you guys giving away more scholarships/ improvements on the site. also if you can find an CPM network around your niche you can get much higher rates.

**conceptart** · 10-29-2007, 01:28 PM

Thank you. I will check it out then. That is significant revenue that would really make a bid difference in what we can do as a community. Even if it was a short term plan to be utilized in order to grow out the community further, it seems like a wise move if those numbers hold true and 30-70k is within reach. Anything less and we would probably pass on it as artists are a touchy bunch when it comes to corporate vibes.

The next question is how difficult is it to sell through on that traffic. I hear people saying they are only getting half their traffic bought. Is this to be expected? Should I be looking to set up multiple cpm companies?

What do you mean by sponsors? We have site sponsors now, but I think we might have two different meanings.

the above numbers just seem too good to be true. Based on the first post, what should we be shooting for for a monthly gross profits and sell through percentage? I am unsure of what to call sell through in webmaster terms...basically the percentage that is sold to the cpm companies.

Jason

**Elemak** · 10-29-2007, 01:39 PM

The percentage that click an ad is called click-through rate (CTR). However, CPM networks don't care about that, they just pay per thousand impressions. I've seen $4 / 1000 impressions on CPM networks before, but I don't use them because I can get much better return on CPA/CPC networks. However a forum might be different as people are more desensitized to the ads.

Forums are notoriously difficult to monetize with ads, but I would drool over that kind of traffic. I think you are missing out on some serious dough. If your membership is very loyal then I wouldn't go all out with contextual ads interspersed throughout threads, but you could still pick up some serious buck with forum sponsorships.

**conceptart** · 10-29-2007, 02:15 PM

thanks. we actually have a very large gallery system which is updated moment to moment too, which is currently down for renovations and upgrades. Our goal is to have the largest online art gallery on the internet, which is highly organized by genre, type, and category...then ranked, and organized by the users. God knows our users have enough content to share to make it happen. We have most the tech done and are getting close to opening up the floodgates. We were running a different system which was not optimized well and was simply too clunky before so we started from scratch and are building it up from the inside out. Lessons learned. Right now, the majority of traffic is, as you said, going through our forums.

Your words are encouraging. Thank you. The funny thing is, up until today, stats were just something we saw as good for the artists as exposure to those in the field is key. Come to find out it may be better than we imagined. But, I always thought advertising as such would only bring us a few thousand per month and so have never seen any potential in it.

When you say 4 bucks per cpm, the advertising company takes half that yes? We do not have a sales staff because we have never needed one. our community is entirely volunteer based. So I think using an agency(s) would be best for now.

We just signed up for a tribal fusion evaluation. I will be curious to see what they have to say. We are total noobs to this advertising side and are open minded about what we should do to make it right for the community.

If we go the cpm route, are we going to need multiple companies to be sure the ads are sold through?

Thanks for the input!

J

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemak

The percentage that click an ad is called click-through rate (CTR). However, CPM networks don't care about that, they just pay per thousand impressions. I've seen $4 / 1000 impressions on CPM networks before, but I don't use them because I can get much better return on CPA/CPC networks. However a forum might be different as people are more desensitized to the ads.

Forums are notoriously difficult to monetize with ads, but I would drool over that kind of traffic. I think you are missing out on some serious dough. If your membership is very loyal then I wouldn't go all out with contextual ads interspersed throughout threads, but you could still pick up some serious buck with forum sponsorships.

**conceptart** · 10-29-2007, 02:21 PM

again...any further input on my first post is grealty appreciated.

truly.

**Webmaster K** · 10-29-2007, 03:00 PM

you are missing out on alot of cash man

**conceptart** · 10-30-2007, 12:07 AM

thanks...

we may still not go after the ads, as it has been a point of pride with us to have a nice clean website, however if it can be done tastefully and for lurkers only, it is something we will consider.

Mainly I am curious for more complete info on what kind of numbers we are missing out on. I mean, if that was your traffic, what would you be expecting in today's ad market?

CA

**imported_mikeb** · 10-30-2007, 12:37 AM

The cpm does NOT take half of that $4/1000.
You are definitely losing out on a grip of money

**xboxundone** · 11-01-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conceptart

thanks...

we may still not go after the ads, as it has been a point of pride with us to have a nice clean website, however if it can be done tastefully and for lurkers only, it is something we will consider.

Mainly I am curious for more complete info on what kind of numbers we are missing out on. I mean, if that was your traffic, what would you be expecting in today's ad market?

CA

If you have registered users. then you can ONLY show the ads to just Visitors, or just show more ads to visitors and only one ad to members/registered users.

As far as the Payout per CPM, Unless you get direct CPM advertisers, MOST CPM network take a percentage but with your volume you should get 50% or more of Revenue. (tribal fusion will take their cut)

The best would be to find a niche CPM network geared towards your audience and setup a guaranteed contract.

As far as income HONESTLY your market is very targetted which in turn means quality USUALLY so there could be a high price CPM but in general don't take anything less than .40 CPM (the portion paid to you so if with a network where you get 50% you would want .80 CPM). but if you find right network or advertiser you could be talkin 4.00 CPM or more!

**xboxundone** · 11-01-2007, 09:55 AM

hit me up via PM I may directly want to advertise on your site.

**perfumer** · 11-02-2007, 06:40 AM

send me a PM. I am interested in advertising on your site conceptart.

**bzhuo** · 11-03-2007, 01:24 AM

I applaud your efforts to not want to sell out to ads. But I see we all need to break even somehow. sorry I have no real good advice other than great sucess to your NPO!

**imported_Eugene** · 11-03-2007, 04:34 AM

With 60 mill you should definitely get some ads up there. Don't use pop-ups tho since people hate them.

**JonathanVolk** · 11-04-2007, 02:15 AM

You'd be able to make at least $xxxx a month if you did VERY LITTLE adverts on it. With that kind of traffic, you could easily make a TON of cash.

**Stas** · 11-09-2007, 11:02 AM

Have you considered in-line contextual ads? They are unobtrusive and pay quite well per click.

**imported_HaRRo** · 11-09-2007, 06:52 PM

I could be interested in advertising there also hit me a pm with a price

**conceptart** · 11-09-2007, 10:45 PM

Any input on who might be the person to contact at tribal fusion or any other appropriate advertising vendor/company/representative would be appreciated. I am looking for a fully managed solution for the community. Please feel free to reach me at my work email jmanley[at}massiveblack.com

I wrote to Tribal Fusion. No answer back yet. To those who asked about individual advertising, I am not sure how that works yet. Please feel free to reach me via email to discuss. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

I am a total noob at this ad stuff so I really appreciate the input and patience as we get this all figured out.

I have been getting a traffic audit done and so far everything comes back as accurate. Now I await a third opinion and pass at the audit results. Found a little overage in the system that checks to be sure the pages are online and that is all so far. .

historically our traffic and member base has about doubled each year. Our goal with the new expansion that is about to launch and the re-opening of our new gallery system, is that we quadruple the traffic over 12 months. Will see how it goes. Though we were doing that before we had the inkling that we were missing out on any quantity advertising money.

For the sake of the community, we are hoping that what has been said about the dollar amounts being left on the table are accurate. The funds would go a long way in improving the school, the site tech, and the scholarship program.

Thanks again for the input and help,

JM

**Adbux.org** · 11-12-2007, 10:57 AM

I have a little more traffic then that and I have found that CPA marketing with like a banner rotator works the best you can make tons of money through CPA banners. If you need to get in contact with someone I know a guy personally that I do business with and he is great. Just PM me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by conceptart

Hello,

I am the founder of a large online digital art and entertainment art community which is averaging the following stats:

1. 60 million page views per month
2. 1.2 million visits per month
3. 700k uniques per month

75 percent is american traffic the rest is europe mostly.

the demographic is mostly 16-35 year old males (the video game crowd with a creative education) very tech savvy...most educated and highly talented.

we have extremly high quality and unique content including tons of exclusive art for major video game and movie projects that go up in our community.

nearly every major entertainment corporation has members on our website, from microsoft to sony to ea to nintendo to ILM to Weta Digital...you name it, they are on there.

we run the site as a non-profit organization and have always spurned ads. we fund the community through training workshops which bring out most the big companies and about 300 art school students each shot at about five hundred bucks a head. We also have dvd educational content and downloadable art education content for sale that does very well.

Now, today we were pushed to do advertising by another company due to our traffic numbers and I am seriously wondering...how much are we missing out on by continuing down the "no way do we sell out" path. It seems that CPM advertising is the best way to go but it also seems like rates have gone way down over the years.

Most the sites I am finding with sixty million page views a month are claiming a 20k-70k a month revenue stream. This is not possible is it? It seems way bloated to me for just having some banners up.

Any advice is appreciated. We give all our money back to the community in form of scholarships, educational programs, and improved technology (the galleries are currently down for updates).

Are we making a mistake by not doing ads? Is there really significant revenue to be had with traffic numbers like ours? It is of note, that our traffic has doubled every year for five years in a row. We are about to undergo a major expansion into other niches and we are reconsidering our biz model.

Best,

CA

**conceptart** · 11-14-2007, 01:01 AM

I guess I will ask about CPA revenue in that thread...not sure of forums etiquette here.

anyway...any info on whom I can talk to about solving our advertising questions is appreciated.

best,

CA